WITHQUIZ

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QUIZBIZ

10th May 2017

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(left) The History Men lift the Val Draper Cup - just;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(right) The Prodigals add the Plate to their A-Trophy victory a fortnight ago

Val Draper Cup Final - The Result

Ethel Rodin lost to The History Men in a desperately close encounter in the Albert Club snooker room QMed by Brian.  After gradually clawing back their handicap disadvantage of 4 points Ethel fell foul of the final question (or rather the final question fell foul of Ethel).  It seems that the scores were level going into the very last question which was directed at Greg.  Naturally he conferred and his colleagues persuaded him away from what proved to be the right answer.  When the question was passed across to the History Men they got the steal and nicked the Cup.

I think for once the Ethel team regarded 'steal' as exactly the right term and were more than a little unhappy with the question-setter of Round 8 (I have to own up here - it was me on behalf of the Opsimaths).  Although, as you may see below (in the 'The Paper' section), I maintain the answer given was correct in all respects as defined by the preamble to the Round it qualified as a 'trick' question and these are bad form in our contests.  Even worse to put it as the final question of the evening when - just possibly as on this occasion - it could decide the fate of the Cup.  I can only say I'm very sorry!

Benefitting from this lapse Ivor reports in on behalf of the Cup winners....

"We are of course delighted to have won the Val Draper Cup - it has been five years since our only other victory in this tournament.

The handicap system worked very well though our four point start was gone by the end of Round 3 and the remaining 5 rounds saw the lead change four times.  Scores were level with Ethel receiving the last question.  They conferred for their winning point - and then talked themselves out of the right answer.  The unexpected 'steal' saw us home by the narrowest of margins.

With Tim absent due to baby-sitting duties with grandchildren in London, Anne’s niece Vanessa had her second game with us - and did not disappoint; nor did Auntie Anne whose time at uni doing modern languages (and watching Countdown) proved crucial.  Highlights of our side’s efforts included:

  • David racking his brain trying to recall My Chemical Romance (unsuccessfully) - but then successfully recalling that in Norse mythology there was “a big ****ing snake somewhere”,

  • Vanessa knowing all about box jellyfish, and the Manchester band Los Trios Paranoias (because her partner plays the bass in the very same band)

  • Anne having read the works of a certain Peruvian Nobel laureate’s works,

  • and 'our man on the bench', Mike, having actually spoken to the very same Peruvian laureate (in Spanish of course)."

James offers these thoughts from the losing corner....

"Ethel's match with the History Men was a close run thing all the way through, with ER catching up their 4 point handicap early on.  Enjoying rounds on a fraternal  theme, and struggling through esoteric tattooage, we ended up tied going into the 'final' final question.

So the 'final' final answer in the final, in a final round where all the answers could be preceded by 'final', was 'final score'.  Greg had it for 2.  And in any other context would have simply gone for it.

But no!  It was the final.  A crucial final question.  And only 1 point needed.  And surely the missing word of 'final' wouldn't have already been in the answer...?  (After all, that's never happened before in any of the similar rounds we've ever had, and particularly not those set by the most experienced setter in the league...).  And so we conferred and, to our final cost, discounted the correct answer.

Many congratulations to the History Men on their victory."

As a postscript 'our man on the bench' Mike H sends in a thought about our practices when a theme has been uncovered in a Hidden Theme round....

"If a person yet to answer is handed a list of possible answers, why does that not count as conferring?"

Perhaps we need to tighten up here.  Certainly I think my own team, The Opsimaths, regularly write down a list of possible upcoming answers which is shown to the team members yet to have a go in a Hidden Theme round.  Is this a sort of 'conferring'?

WithQuiz Plate Final - The Result

Meanwhile in the back lounge of the same Albert Club The Prodigals beat Dunkin' Dönitz in a similarly tight match - though not quite depending on the very last question (thank goodness!).  By the time the flawed Round 8 Question 8 came along (to Kieran) the match had been blown in the direction of the Prodigals through the Dunkers not knowing what a 'point-virgule' was.  Like the the losing team in the other room Kieran was miffed at the answer to the final question - though it has to be said that his colleagues did see the answer given on the paper as entirely valid.  As in the Val Draper match this question went across for a 'steal'.

The handicap advantage enjoyed by the Prodigals remained intact throughout due to an all-round solid performance from the winning team.  If I had to chose (I was in the QM seat for this one) I would nominate Michael as the 'Man of the Match' with Dave a close second.  A well-merited victory!

The Paper

This week the paper was set by 'Knocked Out United' (in fact a consortium of Albert, The Bards of Didsbury, The Charabancs of Fire, Compulsory Mantis Shrimp, The Electric Pigs, The Opsimaths and The Men They Couldn't Hang).

Following a vote by the four teams contesting the finals the 'Round of the Finals' vote went to Round 6 (the Fraternal round) submitted by The Electric Pigs.  Round 2 (the Containers round) by Albert and Round 4 (the Tats round) by the Charas received honourable mentions.  Some wine awaits the winners at the End of Season Evening in a fortnight's time.

This was a lengthy low-scoring paper which kept all concerned at it until just about 11pm (the Plate match finishing about 15 minutes before the Val Draper final).  A pity we should end the season with such a drawn out affair when we have proved throughout the season that we can create sparklingly enjoyable papers that don't detain us past about 10.15pm.  There is a clear correlation between the aggregate score of a match and the length of time the match lasts.  Good QMing matters of course, but if the questions are too hard then inevitably there is much head-scratching and repetitions of the question text.  And so it was on this occasion.  Perhaps it was a result of the format with a series of 'spur of the moment' rounds mashed together from a variety of teams.  Is it time to reconsider the format we use for these Cup final papers?

As it was the average aggregate score of 66.5 was 6 points below the season's overall average.  In the Val Draper match there were 13 unanswered questions splitting 5 to Ethel and 8 to the History Men.  In the Plate final there were (I think) 16 unanswered questions splitting 8 apiece.

As indicated above there was controversy over the final question of Round 8 (set by myself on behalf of the Opsimaths).  The announced theme for Round 8 was that answers should include a word that could either precede or succeed the word 'final' in a familiar phrase.  When I set the round I thought it would be a good idea if the final question in the final round of the season's final paper had the answer 'Final Score' - a question-setter's indulgence maybe but nevertheless a nice way for the season to end.  At the time I overlooked the fact that the word 'final' was actually in the answer.  On reviewing the round I spotted this obvious point of confusion but then (wrongly I guess) let it pass since the answer included a word ('score') which conformed to the rules of the round.  Nothing said that the answers didn't actually include the word 'final' as well!  Of course this resulted in what appears to be a trick question and so I regret not taking this final question out and replacing it.

There was one other faux pas by the setters - this time The Bards.  The answer to Round 3 Question 3 should have been given as 'Thomas Moore' not Henry Moore.  Fortunately this did not cause too much grief since neither team got it in the Plate final and Brian allowed the answer 'Thomas Moore' to get the points in the Val Draper final.

So far this inquest has been a bit gloomy and detracted from some excellent material.  The Electric Pigs 'Fraternal round' was much enjoyed and was at just the right level of challenge.  Ditto Albert's 'Container round' (as QM I enjoyed closing the round by announcing the theme as "Each answer in this round contains.").  Clear favourite for question of the night came from The Men They Couldn't Hang's delving into folk songs with the one about a Vegetable Compound aimed at strengthening the weaker sex (the wording of the question not my own words, I hasten to add).

Ivor rounds off this review....

"Quiz paper was hard - but as Jeremy Paxman would say this is what we should expect as the tournament progresses.  A combined score of 69 with 13 unanswereds (8 to us) with 9 twos each and 5 'steals' each. 

The History Men voted the 'Brothers round' as best on the night with the 'Containers round' a close second; the 'Parks round' scoring 'nul pointes' (probably because we also scored 'nul pointes' on that round)."

The Dave Barras 'Question of the Week'

This week both the Prodigals and the Dunkers worked hard but failed to get Round 1 Question 5 - but they cursed themselves when they heard the answer.  So this excellent question (which was part of The Men They Couldn't Hang's Folksy Round) gets the award:

Which American pharmacist, in the 1870s produced Vegetable Compound, a ‘Positive Cure for all those Complaints and Weaknesses so common to our best female population'?  (either full name, or nickname required)?

For all this week's questions and answers click here.

....and also

The End of Season Evening will be held in a fortnight's time (Wednesday May 24th) at The Albert Club starting at the usual time of 8.30.  Pots will be presented, beer drunk and we will all be quizzed by Mike Wagstaffe, our good mate from The Stockport League.  Please do try and make it along and ensure we see off the season in style.  Friends and partners will all be very welcome.